Requirements question. - Guild Wars Forums

Aeon_Xin · Jan 16, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

What is the difference between req 8 and req 13 weapons? None, if you meet the requirement, obviously.

My question is If you know you're not going to ever meet the requirement.

This is the case of my Necro/Monk 55/SS.
I was going to make my own version of a Totem Axe with Fire damage, but was unclear of game mechanics at this level.

3 Weapon options.(All Axes, in this case, with armor ignoring element damage)

Dmg 6-12 Req 0
Max Damage Req 13
Max Damage Req 8

*Conveniently forgoing the supposed minimum 7 low damage axes.

My Req 9 Slashing Axe currently does 1 dmg to Mountain trolls. I'm assuming that's mob armor and my ability figured in. Using element damage can only increase that number.

If anyone know's where this is posted or has indepth knowledge/practice at using different weapons, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Ok, I dunno about any other posts and I'm not entirely sure what you're asking so I'll just try to explain a few bits and pieces...which I hope are right

Meeting the requirement on a weapon means you will get the "Max Damage" off that weapon. For instance, if you use a staff which is 11-22 (req 9), and you have 8 attributes you will get next to no damage off it. If you have 9 attribute points you will get "Max Damage" which, as far as I'm aware, is a random number picked from the range 11-22.
Elemental mods do not mean more damage...in fact they can mean the opposite. Some mobs out there have high elemental armor...take Rangers for example. If you use a Fiery Axe you should notice rangers taking little damage from it.
To my knowledge the "Max Damage" of a weapon is the damage it should do to a foe with Armor Level 60. Eg, elementalist, monk, ritualist etc.. Trolls are Warriors or Rangers? These will have higher armor so the damage should be less.

I hope I got that right - I'm sure someone will correct me if not.

Your axe is only doing 1 damage to trolls? Assuming you meet the requirement of the weapon my guess would be yes, it is the armor of the trolls...perhaps have particularly high armor vs. slashing.

To my knowledge Totem Axes are mainly used for their "+5 energy" and "Enclantments last 20% longer" mods...so...if you're using it to "55" there should be no need to be hacking away at them.

Guildwiki has this article on Armor Rating which may explain a bit more...perhaps worth a look.

Sorry if this has been no help...but I wasn't sure what you were actually asking..

Edit: If you want to test the amount of damae you can do to generic suits of armor with different armor levels you can either pay a visit to the Island of Balthazar and go out of the portal on to the Isle of the Nameless, or go into the Churrir Fields on the Island of Istan...both have training areas with differing armor level "targets" to test weapons out on.

RPGmaniac · Jan 16, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Just kinda verifying what Beaver said here:

If you're a caster, the damage for your weapon won't matter at all unless you're a dagger using E/A or something like that. But since you're using a 55/SS, you want weapons that add energy and other caster stuff, you should never swing your weapon at your target. And elemental damage is not armor ignoring like Beaver said as well. The time you will see armor ignoring damage is from Obsidian flame, Crystal wave/Tenai's crystals, shadow damage, chaos damage, lifestealing, holy damage (except judge's insight and avatar of balthazar) and skills that don't mention what kind of damage is being done (such as mesmer skills and necromancer skills that deal shadow damage or steal life as mentioned a sentence or two above.)

Also, I might as well say this before someone beats me to it, but gw.gamewikis.org helps a ton with this kind of thing. Do a search on Damage and you should get a good article on armor and damage stuff. Hope this helps.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 16, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I guess I can see where it would be confusing.
No, I have no business hacking away at trolls while 55'ing, but every little bit will end up helping. There's no should or shouldn't involved, while I'm sitting waiting for energy to build, hitting space bar is easy and does nothing adverse to me.

With Zero Axe Mastery, would a Zero requirement axe do more or less damage than an axe with requirements? If so, do axes with different Req's do different damage as well?
(Example enemy, AL60(100%) damage)

You can equip any weapon with any requirement(and your abilities at Zero) and still do some damage, I was wondering if either would be better damage.

As far as elements go, I'm assuming Mountain Trolls don't have alot of fire protection, if any.
They only use warrior skills as far as that goes, not including bosses.
The totem axe gives physical(slashing) damage, and I'm assuming Trolls do have normal armor on(My 1dmg hits).
It is purely assumption that elemental damage of fire would increase the damage. It was no where on the wiki concerning trolls.
I've heard it said all shiverpeak mobs have a weakness to fire, and not so much to ice.(I've only seen it for sure on ice golem type mobs).
I know elemental damage isn't armor ignoring, but if they have armor that gives no bonuses vs elements(or no innate element resistance), it will do better than regular physical damage would.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

With Zero Axe Mastery, would a Zero requirement axe do more or less damage than an axe with requirements? If so, do axes with different Req's do different damage as well?
(Example enemy, AL60(100%) damage)

You can equip any weapon with any requirement(and your abilities at Zero) and still do some damage, I was wondering if either would be better damage.

Well...this I'm not sure of. Something to test maybe. My guess is a white no-requirement axe that does, say, 3-5 damage would do 3-5 damage, whereas a req 9 axe with no points in axe mastery would do maybe 1 or 2 damage. Really, there's not much in it and the zero-requirement weapons tend not to be inscribable...so if you were making one you may not be able to put an "Energy +5" inscription on it.

Sorry, I can't be much more help than that.

fallot · Jan 16, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

*You will deal listed damage with a martial weapon at 12 weapon mastery.
*If you do not meet the req. of a weapon you will do damage equal to a pre-searing weapon.

You have a 15-22 sword req. 9. Use it with 8 sword mastery and you'll deal maybe 4-5 damage. Use it with 9 and you will deal more but not 15-22 until you have 12 sword mastery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Xin

With Zero Axe Mastery, would a Zero requirement axe do more or less damage than an axe with requirements? If so, do axes with different Req's do different damage as well?

Since you need axe mastery to deal damage with an axe even if you meet the req. both will do really low damage. Comparable I would think.

Hockster · Jan 16, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Read the sticky.

Is there any difference between two max weapons that have different requirements?

Aeon_Xin · Jan 16, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

While it took a bit of effort decoding some of guild wiki's tables, I believe I have it straight, But I was wrong once, back in '57.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Damage_Rating_progression

(Setting the issue of armor aside)
A req 0 axe, will do listed damage, at Ability 0. Max Dmg 12 (what the wiki says is max for req 0)
A Req 12 Max axe, will do 0.35, at Ability 0. Max Dmg 9.6

Other than that, I Give up, I can't do all the math, or get past the way things are worded. And I could be completely wrong also.

Though I don't agree with fallot, that you need 12 weapon mastery, on account of the normalized at 0 chart. You can't possibly believe to do listed damage with a req0 6-12 axe, you need 12 axe mastery. With a Req 12 Axe, yes.

The definition of "pre-searing" weapon is a bit loose, as there's a pleathora of pre searing weaponry, to include purple weapons.

But use pre searing weapons as an example.
Use any req 0 weapon on any lowlevelmob, you get pretty much the listed damage range every time, even my necro/ele I had was getting full damage range with a hammer.(Hey, it had signifigantly more damage than any wand/staff I picked up, leave me alone)

Don't suppose you could link to your sources fallot, so that they can be verified?

Celestial, I don't have NF, so I didn't know lower level weapons weren't inscribable, or aren't common anyways, but thanks.

On a side note about elemental damage. I thought it bypassed all physical aspects of armor(everything but express vs elements), as that's what seems to happen in the field.
Example:
In pre searing, I had a firey sword with considerably less damage than the rinblade, yet it consistantly did very close damage to the rinblade, ascrost a whole spectrum of creatures. I tested them both for hours(with a warrior), except on the ice golems in Wizards folley.

The wiki is contrary to what I remember. I'm most likely mistaken, or my fiery sword was customized or something, I'm not sure.

lennymon · Jan 16, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

the reference to presearing weapons just means the starter weapon which cant be sold. for example the starter axe is 3-5 damage, meaning if you dont meet the requirement for an axe this is the damage range you will deal. regarding attributes: if you have 12 axe mastery you will deal 100% of the listed damage (or 3-5 if it is a req 13) against an opponent of your level and at armor level 60. any other level of axe mastery (including 0) will scale this damage on a sliding scale, and any other value of opponent armor and level will increase this or decrease this damage on a linear scale.
Elemental weapons never deal 'more' damage, armor is typed or non-typed: there is armor, armor vs-physical, and armor vs-elemental. fire damage computes itself vs armor PLUS armor vs-elemental PLUS specific armor vs-fire. Same with an axe(say with zealous mod): armor plus armor vs-physical plus armor vs-slashing. Hope all this helps clarify.

edit: oh, additionally the 12 axe mastery thing only applies to the base damage of the axe, all skill damage will of course be at the value listed for the skill and added to the base damage of the axe and if I understand things correctly, skill damage IS armor ignoring however I could be way wrong on that, heh. Easy to check on the combat dummies in isle of nameless though.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 17, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I get it about requirements now.
If you meet the requirements of an item, then you begin to do some real damage, but you still don't do listed damage yet.

My only real question left is why it isn't put that simply on guild wiki?
Or
Where does it?

*Note:
With my req 9 katana, my warrior does do max damage at Ability 11.
22 is the max I hit for, except for criticals around 30.

darkMishkin · Jan 17, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

It isn't put simply on Wiki because it isn't simple. At all.

Listed damage assumes you are level 20, with 12 in your weapon's attribute, wielding a weapon of 12 req or lower and attacking a level 20 enemy with 60 armour. That's alot of asumptions.

Mountain Trolls use Warriors skills. Usually Warriors have a high AL, plus a bonus AL versus physical damage. Switching to an Elemental weapon vs a warrior is therefore usually a good idea, as they lose a percentage of their AL (This is why Elemental mods are so much better than Sundering vs Warriors in PvP). But, they still have very high armour, and you will still do next to no damage against them using a weapon with no points in it's attribute. This is all pointless though if Mountain Trolls do not have a armour bonus vs physical damage.

N E D M · Jan 17, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Mountain Trolls do seem to have a bonus vs physical, so fire will help at least a bit.
Tundra Giants are EXTREMELY weak against fire.

Emik · Jan 17, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

For a 55'er it doesn't matter if the weapon has the max damage...
The only reason why people take a Totem Axe/Rajazan's Fervor is becoz of the 20% enchanting mod.
That's it.
Apart from that the link posted above gives all additional info.

Jan 16, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11	#1
Aeon_Xin Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: E/Me	Requirements question. What is the difference between req 8 and req 13 weapons? None, if you meet the requirement, obviously. My question is If you know you're not going to ever meet the requirement. This is the case of my Necro/Monk 55/SS. I was going to make my own version of a Totem Axe with Fire damage, but was unclear of game mechanics at this level. 3 Weapon options.(All Axes, in this case, with armor ignoring element damage) Dmg 6-12 Req 0 Max Damage Req 13 Max Damage Req 8 *Conveniently forgoing the supposed minimum 7 low damage axes. My Req 9 Slashing Axe currently does 1 dmg to Mountain trolls. I'm assuming that's mob armor and my ability figured in. Using element damage can only increase that number. If anyone know's where this is posted or has indepth knowledge/practice at using different weapons, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jan 16, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50	#2
Cebe The 5th Celestial Boss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Inverness, Scotland Guild: The Cult of Scaro [WHO] Profession: E/	Ok, I dunno about any other posts and I'm not entirely sure what you're asking so I'll just try to explain a few bits and pieces...which I hope are right Meeting the requirement on a weapon means you will get the "Max Damage" off that weapon. For instance, if you use a staff which is 11-22 (req 9), and you have 8 attributes you will get next to no damage off it. If you have 9 attribute points you will get "Max Damage" which, as far as I'm aware, is a random number picked from the range 11-22. Elemental mods do not mean more damage...in fact they can mean the opposite. Some mobs out there have high elemental armor...take Rangers for example. If you use a Fiery Axe you should notice rangers taking little damage from it. To my knowledge the "Max Damage" of a weapon is the damage it should do to a foe with Armor Level 60. Eg, elementalist, monk, ritualist etc.. Trolls are Warriors or Rangers? These will have higher armor so the damage should be less. I hope I got that right - I'm sure someone will correct me if not. Your axe is only doing 1 damage to trolls? Assuming you meet the requirement of the weapon my guess would be yes, it is the armor of the trolls...perhaps have particularly high armor vs. slashing. To my knowledge Totem Axes are mainly used for their "+5 energy" and "Enclantments last 20% longer" mods...so...if you're using it to "55" there should be no need to be hacking away at them. Guildwiki has this article on Armor Rating which may explain a bit more...perhaps worth a look. Sorry if this has been no help...but I wasn't sure what you were actually asking.. Edit: If you want to test the amount of damae you can do to generic suits of armor with different armor levels you can either pay a visit to the Island of Balthazar and go out of the portal on to the Isle of the Nameless, or go into the Churrir Fields on the Island of Istan...both have training areas with differing armor level "targets" to test weapons out on. Last edited by Cebe; Jan 16, 2007 at 08:58 AM // 08:58..

Jan 16, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10	#4
Aeon_Xin Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: E/Me	I guess I can see where it would be confusing. No, I have no business hacking away at trolls while 55'ing, but every little bit will end up helping. There's no should or shouldn't involved, while I'm sitting waiting for energy to build, hitting space bar is easy and does nothing adverse to me. With Zero Axe Mastery, would a Zero requirement axe do more or less damage than an axe with requirements? If so, do axes with different Req's do different damage as well? (Example enemy, AL60(100%) damage) You can equip any weapon with any requirement(and your abilities at Zero) and still do some damage, I was wondering if either would be better damage. As far as elements go, I'm assuming Mountain Trolls don't have alot of fire protection, if any. They only use warrior skills as far as that goes, not including bosses. The totem axe gives physical(slashing) damage, and I'm assuming Trolls do have normal armor on(My 1dmg hits). It is purely assumption that elemental damage of fire would increase the damage. It was no where on the wiki concerning trolls. I've heard it said all shiverpeak mobs have a weakness to fire, and not so much to ice.(I've only seen it for sure on ice golem type mobs). I know elemental damage isn't armor ignoring, but if they have armor that gives no bonuses vs elements(or no innate element resistance), it will do better than regular physical damage would. Last edited by Aeon_Xin; Jan 16, 2007 at 09:15 AM // 09:15..

Jan 16, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59	#8
Aeon_Xin Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: E/Me	While it took a bit of effort decoding some of guild wiki's tables, I believe I have it straight, But I was wrong once, back in '57. http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Damage_Rating_progression (Setting the issue of armor aside) A req 0 axe, will do listed damage, at Ability 0. Max Dmg 12 (what the wiki says is max for req 0) A Req 12 Max axe, will do 0.35, at Ability 0. Max Dmg 9.6 Other than that, I Give up, I can't do all the math, or get past the way things are worded. And I could be completely wrong also. Though I don't agree with fallot, that you need 12 weapon mastery, on account of the normalized at 0 chart. You can't possibly believe to do listed damage with a req0 6-12 axe, you need 12 axe mastery. With a Req 12 Axe, yes. The definition of "pre-searing" weapon is a bit loose, as there's a pleathora of pre searing weaponry, to include purple weapons. But use pre searing weapons as an example. Use any req 0 weapon on any lowlevelmob, you get pretty much the listed damage range every time, even my necro/ele I had was getting full damage range with a hammer.(Hey, it had signifigantly more damage than any wand/staff I picked up, leave me alone) Don't suppose you could link to your sources fallot, so that they can be verified? Celestial, I don't have NF, so I didn't know lower level weapons weren't inscribable, or aren't common anyways, but thanks. On a side note about elemental damage. I thought it bypassed all physical aspects of armor(everything but express vs elements), as that's what seems to happen in the field. Example: In pre searing, I had a firey sword with considerably less damage than the rinblade, yet it consistantly did very close damage to the rinblade, ascrost a whole spectrum of creatures. I tested them both for hours(with a warrior), except on the ice golems in Wizards folley. The wiki is contrary to what I remember. I'm most likely mistaken, or my fiery sword was customized or something, I'm not sure. Last edited by Aeon_Xin; Jan 16, 2007 at 02:01 PM // 14:01..

Jan 16, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08	#9
lennymon Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	the reference to presearing weapons just means the starter weapon which cant be sold. for example the starter axe is 3-5 damage, meaning if you dont meet the requirement for an axe this is the damage range you will deal. regarding attributes: if you have 12 axe mastery you will deal 100% of the listed damage (or 3-5 if it is a req 13) against an opponent of your level and at armor level 60. any other level of axe mastery (including 0) will scale this damage on a sliding scale, and any other value of opponent armor and level will increase this or decrease this damage on a linear scale. Elemental weapons never deal 'more' damage, armor is typed or non-typed: there is armor, armor vs-physical, and armor vs-elemental. fire damage computes itself vs armor PLUS armor vs-elemental PLUS specific armor vs-fire. Same with an axe(say with zealous mod): armor plus armor vs-physical plus armor vs-slashing. Hope all this helps clarify. edit: oh, additionally the 12 axe mastery thing only applies to the base damage of the axe, all skill damage will of course be at the value listed for the skill and added to the base damage of the axe and if I understand things correctly, skill damage IS armor ignoring however I could be way wrong on that, heh. Easy to check on the combat dummies in isle of nameless though. Last edited by lennymon; Jan 16, 2007 at 06:29 PM // 18:29..

Jan 16, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05	#3
RPGmaniac Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005	Just kinda verifying what Beaver said here: If you're a caster, the damage for your weapon won't matter at all unless you're a dagger using E/A or something like that. But since you're using a 55/SS, you want weapons that add energy and other caster stuff, you should never swing your weapon at your target. And elemental damage is not armor ignoring like Beaver said as well. The time you will see armor ignoring damage is from Obsidian flame, Crystal wave/Tenai's crystals, shadow damage, chaos damage, lifestealing, holy damage (except judge's insight and avatar of balthazar) and skills that don't mention what kind of damage is being done (such as mesmer skills and necromancer skills that deal shadow damage or steal life as mentioned a sentence or two above.) Also, I might as well say this before someone beats me to it, but gw.gamewikis.org helps a ton with this kind of thing. Do a search on Damage and you should get a good article on armor and damage stuff. Hope this helps.

Jan 16, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40	#7
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	Read the sticky. Is there any difference between two max weapons that have different requirements?

Jan 17, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12	#10
Aeon_Xin Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: E/Me	I get it about requirements now. If you meet the requirements of an item, then you begin to do some real damage, but you still don't do listed damage yet. My only real question left is why it isn't put that simply on guild wiki? Or Where does it? *Note: With my req 9 katana, my warrior does do max damage at Ability 11. 22 is the max I hit for, except for criticals around 30.

Jan 17, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32	#11
darkMishkin Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: Mo/	It isn't put simply on Wiki because it isn't simple. At all. Listed damage assumes you are level 20, with 12 in your weapon's attribute, wielding a weapon of 12 req or lower and attacking a level 20 enemy with 60 armour. That's alot of asumptions. Mountain Trolls use Warriors skills. Usually Warriors have a high AL, plus a bonus AL versus physical damage. Switching to an Elemental weapon vs a warrior is therefore usually a good idea, as they lose a percentage of their AL (This is why Elemental mods are so much better than Sundering vs Warriors in PvP). But, they still have very high armour, and you will still do next to no damage against them using a weapon with no points in it's attribute. This is all pointless though if Mountain Trolls do not have a armour bonus vs physical damage.

Jan 17, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06	#12
N E D M Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Officer's Club Guild: Gameamp Guides [AMP]	Mountain Trolls do seem to have a bonus vs physical, so fire will help at least a bit. Tundra Giants are EXTREMELY weak against fire.

Jan 17, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32	#13
Emik Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [FaRM] Farm For The Win Profession: N/	For a 55'er it doesn't matter if the weapon has the max damage... The only reason why people take a Totem Axe/Rajazan's Fervor is becoz of the 20% enchanting mod. That's it. Apart from that the link posted above gives all additional info.